Autor Tema: Bitka za Berlin - opravdano zrtvovanje grada ili ne  (Pročitano 24348 puta)

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Odg: Bitka za Berlin - opravdano zrtvovanje grada ili ne
« Odgovor #30 poslato: Oktobar 11, 2007, 03:33:10 posle podne »
Evo ovdje postavljam spisak svih njema?kih jedinica koje su u?estvovale u bitci za Berlin,pazite samo nazive divizija,Potsdam divizija,Klossek divizija pa wolssturm divizije,pješadijska divizija V weapons!???? naval divizije,vidi se da je sve skupljeno na brzaka,i da su to jedinice i divizije samo na papiru bile uglavnom sem par ?asnih izuzetaka.

Appendix 2: German Order of Battle for Operation Berlin (Le Tissier, pp. 208 ? 214)
Those units directly involved with the defence of Berlin are shown in more detail.

OKW RESERVE (later allocated to the LVI Panzer Corps, 9th Army)

18th Panzergrenadier Division (Maj Gen Josef Rauch)
30th & 51st Panzergrenadier Regts
118th Panzer Regt (part)
18th Artillery Regt

ARMY GROUP ?VISTULA? (Col Gen Gotthard Heinrici)

III SS ?Germanic? Panzer Corps (SS Lt Gen Felix Steiner)
(divisions later allocated to the 9th Army)
11th SS ?Nordland? Panzergrenadier Division (SS Maj Gen Jurgen Ziegler / SS Maj Gen Dr Gustav Krukenburg)
23rd ?Norge? Panzergrenadier Regt
24th ?Danmark? Panzergrenadier Regt
11th SS ?Hermann von Salza? Panzer Btn
503rd SS Heavy Tank Btn
11th SS ?Nordland? Armoured Reconnaissance Btn
23rd SS ?Nederland? Panzergrenadier Division (SS Maj Gen Wagner)
(divisions later allocated to the 3rd Panzer Army)
27th SS ?Langemarck? Grenadier Division
28th SS ?Wallonien? Grenadier Division

3rd Panzer Army (Gen Hasso von Manteuffel)
?Swinemunde? Corps (Lt Gen Ansat)
402nd & 2nd Naval Divisions
XXXII Corps (Lt Gen Schack)
?Voigt? & 281st Infantry Divisions
549th Volksgrenadier Division
Stettin Garrison
?Oder? Corps (SS Lt Gen von dem Bach / Gen Hörnlein)
610th & ?Klossek? Infantry Divisions
XXXXVI Panzer Corps (Gen Martin Gareis)
547th Volksgrenadier Division
1st Naval Division

9th Army (Gen Theodor Busse)

156th Infantry Division
541st Volksgrenadier Division
404th Volks Artillery Corps
406th Volks Artillery Corps
408th Volks Artillery Corps

CI Corps (Gen Wilhelm Berlin / Lt Gen Friedrich Sixt)
5th Light Infantry Division
606th Infantry Division
309th ?Berlin? Infantry Division
25th Panzergrenadier Division
111th SPG Training Bde
?1001 Nights? Combat Group
LVI Panzer Corps (Gen Helmuth Weidling)
9th Fallschirmjäger Division (Gen Bruno Braüer / Col Harry Herrmann)
25th, 26th & 27th Fallschirmjäger Regts
9th Fallschirmjäger Artillery Regt
20th Panzergrenadier Division (Col / Maj Gen Georg Scholze)
76th & 90th Panzergrenadier Regts
8th Panzer Btn
20th Artillery Regt
?Müncheberg? Panzer Division (Maj Gen Werner Mummert)
1st & 2nd ?Müncheberg? Panzergrenadier Regts
?Müncheberg? Panzer Regt
?Müncheburg? Armoured Artillery Regt
920th SPG Training Bde
XI SS Panzer Corps (SS Gen Mathias Kleinheisterkamp)
303rd ?Döberitz? Infantry Division
169th Infantry Division
712th Infantry Division
?Kurmark? Panzergrenadier Division
502nd SS Heavy Tank Btn
Frankfurt an der Oder Garrison (Col / Maj Gen Ernst Biehler)
V SS Mountain Corps (SS Gen Friedrich Jackeln)
286th Infantry Division
32nd SS ?30. Januar? Volksgrenadier Division
391st Sy Division
561st SS Tank Hunting Btn

ARMY GROUP CENTRE (Field Marshal Ferdinand Schörner)

4th Panzer Army (Gen Fritz-Herbert Gräser)
(later transferred to the 9th Army)
V Corps (Lt Gen Wagner)
35th SS Police Grenadier Division
36th SS Grenadier Division
275th Infantry Division
342nd Infantry Division
21st Panzer Division

12th Army (Gen Walter Wenck)
XX Corps (Gen Carl-Erik Koehler)
?Theodor Körner? RAD Division
?Ulrich von Hutten? Infantry Division
?Ferdinand von Schill? Infantry Division
?Scharnhorst? Infantry Division
XXXIX Panzer Corps (Lt Gen Karl Arndt)
(12 ? 21 April 1945 under OKW with the following structure)
?Clausewitz? Panzer Division
?Schlageter? RAD Division
84th Infantry Division
(21 ? 26 April 1945 under 12th Army with the following structure)
?Clausewitz? Panzer Division
84th Infantry Division
?Hamburg? Reserve Infantry Division
?Meyer? Infantry Division
XXXXI Panzer Corps (Lt Gen Holste)
?von Hake? Infantry Division
199th Infantry Division
?V-Weapons? Infantry Division
1st HJ Tank Destroyer Bde
?Hermann Göring? Jagdpanzer Bde
XXXXVIII Panzer Corps (Gen Maximillian Reichsherr von Edelscheim)
14th Flak Division
?Leipzig? Battle Group
?Halle? Battle Group

Ungrouped Formations

?Friedrich Ludwig Jahn? RAD Division (Col Gerhard Klein / Col Franz Weller)
?Potsdam? Infantry Division (Col Erich Lorenz)
Municije nestalo.Oruzje i oprema unisteni.Prema primljenim naredjenjima DAK se borio dok je mogao.Njemacki Africki korpus mora ponovo uskrsnuti!HEIA SAFARI!

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Odg: Bitka za Berlin - opravdano zrtvovanje grada ili ne
« Odgovor #31 poslato: Oktobar 17, 2007, 01:50:53 posle podne »
na papiru lepo izgleda
kad se malo bolje zagleda vidi se da tu ima i nazovi padobranaca i mornara i .....jedna papazjanija od vojske
i nema oklopnih divizija, bar ne u nekom respektujucem broju

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Odg: Bitka za Berlin - opravdano zrtvovanje grada ili ne
« Odgovor #32 poslato: Oktobar 18, 2007, 12:20:35 posle podne »
na papiru lepo izgleda
kad se malo bolje zagleda vidi se da tu ima i nazovi padobranaca i mornara i .....jedna papazjanija od vojske
i nema oklopnih divizija, bar ne u nekom respektujucem broju
Da tako nešto na papiru,a kad malo bolje zagledaš vidiš gomilu rezervnih divizija i volkssturm jedinica,te mornare i SS jedinice a po njihovim brojevima vidiš da su na brzinu formirane.Sve u svemu ba?eno je u rat sve što je moglo da nosi pušku a borbena vrijednost toga je jako slaba.
Municije nestalo.Oruzje i oprema unisteni.Prema primljenim naredjenjima DAK se borio dok je mogao.Njemacki Africki korpus mora ponovo uskrsnuti!HEIA SAFARI!

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Odg: Bitka za Berlin - opravdano zrtvovanje grada ili ne
« Odgovor #33 poslato: Oktobar 18, 2007, 12:24:48 posle podne »
sam berlinski garnizon ili odbrana berlina je manje vise bio jedan haos
organizovan otpor je bio na odri, i sve posle zelovskih visova je bilo izvlacenje na zapad

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Odg: Bitka za Berlin - opravdano zrtvovanje grada ili ne
« Odgovor #34 poslato: Oktobar 18, 2007, 01:07:46 posle podne »
Da i ve?ina ovih jedinica je nakon Zelovksih visova ostala izvan Berlina,kao na prmijer 9 i 12 armija od kojih je Hitler zahtjevao da probiju ruski prsten oko Berlina kada je okružen i pomognu berlinskom garnizonu koji je sa?ivanjao 56.tenkovski korpus.
Municije nestalo.Oruzje i oprema unisteni.Prema primljenim naredjenjima DAK se borio dok je mogao.Njemacki Africki korpus mora ponovo uskrsnuti!HEIA SAFARI!

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Odg: Bitka za Berlin - opravdano zrtvovanje grada ili ne
« Odgovor #35 poslato: Oktobar 18, 2007, 01:23:33 posle podne »
bese kurt vajdling ili tako nekako k-dant korpusa

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Odg: Bitka za Berlin - opravdano zrtvovanje grada ili ne
« Odgovor #36 poslato: Oktobar 30, 2007, 06:30:25 pre podne »
?Friedrich Ludwig Jahn? RAD Division (Col Gerhard Klein / Col Franz Weller)
?Potsdam? Infantry Division (Col Erich Lorenz)

A šta zna?e ovi kvadrati?i koje vidim, npr. ispred Friedrich Ludwig Jahn, pa posle, pa piše RAD Division (Col Gerhard Klein / Col Franz Weller) i na kraju opet kvadrati? pa Potsdam...? Jesu li to navodnici?
... Boricemo se u Francuskoj, na morima i okeanima, boriti sa sve vecim samopouzdanjem i sve jacim snagama u vazduhu, branicemo nase ostrvo, ma kakva da bude cena. Boricemo se na obalama, na mestima za iskrcavanja, na poljima i po ulicama , boriti u brdima; nikada se necemo predati ...

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Odg: Bitka za Berlin - opravdano zrtvovanje grada ili ne
« Odgovor #37 poslato: Oktobar 30, 2007, 11:58:10 pre podne »
Da,navodnici su,tako stoji i u tesktu.Ne znam zašto su prilikom prebacivanja teksta na forum pretvoreni u kvadrati?e.
Municije nestalo.Oruzje i oprema unisteni.Prema primljenim naredjenjima DAK se borio dok je mogao.Njemacki Africki korpus mora ponovo uskrsnuti!HEIA SAFARI!

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Odg: Bitka za Berlin - opravdano zrtvovanje grada ili ne
« Odgovor #38 poslato: Oktobar 30, 2007, 12:08:05 posle podne »
A evo i spisak ruskih jedinica koje su u?estvovale u Berlinskoj operaciji

Appendix 1: Soviet Order of Battle for the Battle for Berlin (Le Tissier, pp. 196 – 207)
Units are listed as they were deployed from north to south on 16 April 1945, with those having assaulted the city in greater detail.

2ND BYELORUSSIAN FRONT (Marshal K. K. Rokossovsky)

2nd Shock Army (Col Gen I. I. Fedyurinsky)
108th & 116th Rifle Corps

65th Army (Col Gen P. I. Batov)
18th, 46th & 105th Rifle Corps

70th Army (Col Gen V. S. Popov)
47th, 96th & 114th Rifle Corps

49th Army (Col Gen I. T. Grishin)
70th & 121st Rifle Corps
191st, 200th & 330th Rifle Divisions

19th Army
40th Guards, 132nd & 134th Rifle Corps

5th Guards Tank Army
29th Tank Corps
1st Tank & 4th Mechanised Bdes

4th Air Army (Col Gen K. A. Vershinin)
4th Air Assault, 5th Air Bomber and 8th Air Fighter Corps

1ST BYELORUSSIAN FRONT (Marshal G. K. Zhukov)

61st Army (Col Gen P. A. Belov)
9th Guards, 80th & 89th Rifle Corps

1st Polish Army (Lt Gen S. G. Poplowski)
1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 6th Polish Infantry Divisions
1st Polish Cavalry Bde
4th Polish Heavy Tank Bde
13th Polish SP Assault Artillery Bde
7th Polish Assault Artillery Btn

47th Army (Lt Gen F. I. Perkhorovitch)
77th, 125th & 129th Rifle Corps
70th Guards Independent Tank Regt
334th, 1204th, 1416th, 1825th & 1892nd SP Assault Artillery Regts

3rd Shock Army (Col Gen V. I. Kutznetsov)
7th Rifle Corps (Maj Gen V. A. Christov / Col Gen Y. T. Chyervichenko)
146th, 265th & 364th Rifle Divisions
12th Guards Rifle Corps (Lt Gen A. F. Kazanin / Maj Gen A. A. Filatov)
23rd Guards, 52nd Guards & 33rd Rifle Divisions
79th Rifle Corps (Maj Gen S. I. Perevertkin)
150th Rifle Division (Maj Gen V. M. Shatilov)
469th, 674th & 756th Rifle Regts
171st Rifle Division (Col A. P. Negoda)
380th, 525th & 783rd Rifle Regts
207th Rifle Division (Col V. M. Asafov)
594th, 597th & 598th Rifle Regts
9th Tank Corps (Lt Gen I. F. Kirichenko)
23rd, 95th & 108th Tank Bdes
8th Motorised Rifle Regt
1455th & 1508th SP Assault Artillery Regts

5th Shock Army (Gen / Col Gen N. E. Berzarin)
9th Rifle Corps (Maj Gen / Lt Gen I. P. Rossly)
230th, 248th & 301st Rife Divisions
26th Guards Corps (Maj Gen P. A. Firsov)
89th Guards, 94th Guards & 266th Rifle Divisions
32nd Rifle Corps (Lt Gen D. S. Zherebin)
60th Guards, 295th & 416th Rifle Divisions
11th, 67th Guards & 220th Tank Bdes
92nd Independent Tank Regt
396th Guards & 1504th SP Assault Artillery Regts

8th Guards Army (Col Gen V. I. Chuikov)
4th Guards Rifle Corps (Lt Gen V. A. Glazonov)
35th Guards, 47th Guards & 57th Guards Rifle Divisions
28th Guards Rifle Corps (Lt Gen V. M. Shugeyev)
39th Guards, 79th Guards & 88th Guards Rifle Divisions
29th Guards Rifle Corps (Maj Gen P. I. Zalizyuk)
27th Guards, 74th Guards & 82nd Guards Rifle Divisions
7th Guards Tank Bde
84th Guards, 65th & 259th Independent Tank Regts
371st, 374th Guards, 694th, 1026th, 1061st, 1087th & 1200th SP Assault Artillery Regts

69th Army (Col Gen V. Y. Kolpakchi)
25th, 61st & 91st Rifle Corps
117th & 283rd Rifle Divisions
68th Tank Bde
12th SP Assault Artillery Bde
344th Guards, 1205th, 1206th & 1221st SP Assault Artillery Regts

33rd Army (Col Gen V. D. Svotaev)
16th, 38th & 62nd Rifle Corps
2nd Guards Cavalry Corps
95th Rifle Division
257th Independent Tank Regt
360th & 361st SP Assault Artillery Regts

16th Air Army (Col Gen S. I. Rudenko)
6th & 9th Air Assault Corps
3rd & 6th Air Bomber Corps
1st Guards, 3rd, 6th & 13th Air Fighter Corps
1st Guards, 240th, 282nd & 286th Air Fighter Divisions
2nd & 11th Guards Air Assault Divisions
113th, 183rd, 188th & 221st Air Bomber Divisions
9th Guards & 242nd Air Night Bomber Divisions
16th & 72nd Air Reconnaissance Regts
93rd & 98th Air Observation Regts
176th Guards Air Fighter Regt
226th Air Transport Regt

18th Air Army (AVM A. Y. Golovanov)
1st Guards, 2nd, 3rd & 4th Air Bomber Corps
45th Air Bomber Division
56th Air Fighter Division
742nd Air Reconnaissance Regt

1st Guards Tank Army (Col Gen M. Y. Katukov)
8th Guards Mechanised Corps (Maj Gen I. F. Drygemov)
19th, 20th & 21st Guards Mechanised Bdes
1st Guards Tank Bde
48th Guards Tank Regt
353rd & 400th Guards SP Assault Artillery Regts
8th Guards M/C Btn
11th Guards Tank Corps (Col A. H. Babadshanian)
40th, 44th & 45th Guards Tank Bdes
27th Guards Mechanised Bde
362nd, 399th Guards & 1454 SP Assault Artillery Regts
9th Guards M/C Btn
11th Tank Corps (Maj Gen I. I. Jushuk)
20th, 36th & 65th Tank Bdes
12th Motorised Rifle Bde
50th Guards Tank Regt
1461st & 1493rd SP Assault Artillery Regts
64th Guards Tank Bde
19th SP Assault Artillery Bde
11th Guards Independent Tank Regt
12th Guards M/C Btn

2nd Guards Tank Army (Col Gen S. I. Bogdanov)
1st Mechanised Corps (Lt Gen S. I. Krivosheina)
19th, 35th & 37th Mechanised Bdes
219th Tank Bde
347th Guards, 75th & 1822nd SP Assault Artillery Regts
57th M/C Btn
9th Guards Tank Corps (Maj Gen A. F. Popov)
47th, 50th & 65th Guards Tank Bdes
33rd Guards Mechanised Bde
341st, 369th & 386th Guards SP Assault artillery Regts
17th Guards M/C Btn
12th Guards Tank Corps (Maj Gen M. K. Teltakov / Col A. T. Shevchenko)
48th, 49th & 66th Guards Tank Bdes
34th Guards Mechanised Bde
79th Guards Tank Regt
387th & 393rd Guards SP Assault Artillery Regts
6th Guards Independent Tank Regt
5th Guards M/C Regt
16th Guards M/C Btn

3rd Army (Col Gen A. V. Gorbatov)
35th, 40th & 41st Rifle Corps
1812th, 1888th & 1901st SP Assault Artillery Regts
2nd, 3rd & 7th Guards Cavalry Corps
3rd & 8th Guards Tank Corps
244th Independent Tank Regt
31st, 39th, 51st & 55th Independent Armoured Train Btns

1ST UKRAINIAN FRONT (Marshal I. S. Koniev)

3rd Guards Army (Col Gen V. N. Gordov)
21st, 76th & 120th Rifle Corps
25th Tank Corps
389th Rifle Division
87th Guards Independent Tank Regt
938th SP Assault Artillery Regt

13th Army (Col Gen N. P. Phukov)
24th, 27th & 102nd Rifle Corps
88th Independent Tank Regt
327th, 372nd Guards, 768th & 1228th SP Assault Artillery Regts

5th Guards Army (Col Gen A. S. Zhadov)
32nd, 33rd & 34th Guards Rifle Corps
4th Guards Tank Corps

2nd Polish Army (Lt Gen K. K. Swiersczewski)
5th, 7th, 8th, 9th & 10th Polish Infantry Divisions
1st Polish Tank Corps
16th Polish Tank Bde
5th Polish Independent Tank Regt
28th polish SP Assault Artillery Regt

52nd Army (Col Gen K. A. Koroteyev)
48th, 73rd & 78th Rifle Corps
7th Guards Mechanised Corps
213th Rifle Division
8th SP Assault Artillery Bde
124th Independent Tank Regt
1198th SP Assault Artillery Regt

2nd Air Army (Col Gen S. A. Krasovsky)
1st Guards, 2nd Guards & 3rd Air Assault Corps
4th & 6th Guards Air Bomber Corps
2nd, 5th & 6th Air Fighter Corps
208th Air Night Bomber Division
98th & 193rd Guards Air Reconnaissance Regts
222nd Air Transport Regt

3rd Guards Tank Army (Col Gen P. S. Rybalko)
6th Guards Tank Corps (Maj Gen V. A. Mitrofanov)
51st, 52nd & 53rd Guards Tank Bdes
22nd Guards Motorised Rifle Bde
385th Guards, 1893rd & 1894th SP Assault Artillery Regts
3rd Guards M/C Btn
7th Guards Tank Corps (Maj Gen V. V. Novikov)
54th, 55th & 56th Guards Tank Bdes
23rd Guards Motorised Rifle Bde
384th Guards, 702nd & 1977th SP Assault Artillery Regts
4th Guards M/C Btn
9th Mechanised Corps (Lt Gen I. P. Suchov)
69th, 70th & 71st Mechanised Bdes
91st Tank Bde
383rd Guards, 1507th & 1978th SP Assault Artillery Regts
100th M/C Btn
16th SP Assault Artillery Bde
57th Guards & 90th Independent Tank Regts
50th M/C Regt

4th Guards Tank Army (Col Gen D. D. Lelyushenko)
5th & 6th Guards Mechanised Corps
10th Guards Tank Corps
68th Guards Tank Bde
70th Guards SP Assault Artillery Bde
13th & 119th Guards Independent Tank Regts
7th Guards M/C Regt

28th Army (Lt Gen A. A. Luchinsky)
20th, 38th Guards & 128th Rifle Corps

31st Army
1st Guards Cavalry Corps (Lt Gen V. K. Baranov)
152nd Tank Bde
98th Independent Tank Regt
368th Guards, 416th & 1976th SP Assault Artillery Regts
21st, 45th, 49th & 58th Independent Armoured Train Btns
Municije nestalo.Oruzje i oprema unisteni.Prema primljenim naredjenjima DAK se borio dok je mogao.Njemacki Africki korpus mora ponovo uskrsnuti!HEIA SAFARI!

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Odg: Bitka za Berlin - opravdano zrtvovanje grada ili ne
« Odgovor #39 poslato: Januar 18, 2008, 07:27:45 posle podne »
Iskreno, Rusi su pokazali veliku okrutnost nad Nemcima a posebno Madjarima. :roll:


60% gubitaka SSSR su bili civili. Nemci su izgubili oko 1 milion civila od toga pola u bombardovanjima saveznika. Ovo me podseca na Blajburg kao partizanska okrutnost a pritom nespominju sta su oni uradili.


Zlo ciniti od Zla se braniti tu greske biti nemore.
Troja je pala, Rim je pao, Lenjingrad nije pao

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Odg: Bitka za Berlin - opravdano zrtvovanje grada ili ne
« Odgovor #40 poslato: Jul 09, 2008, 05:23:34 posle podne »
Staljin je to sve mogao da spreci, ali namerno nije. Posebno silovanje zena.
History will be kind to me for I intend to write it. - Winston Churchill

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Odg: Bitka za Berlin - opravdano zrtvovanje grada ili ne
« Odgovor #41 poslato: Jul 09, 2008, 07:13:54 posle podne »
Sta da spreci. Onda bi prosli totalno ne kaznjeno ovako su malo osetili sta je Wermacht i SS radile po SSSR. Veruj nije mi ih ni malcice zao.
Troja je pala, Rim je pao, Lenjingrad nije pao

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Odg: Bitka za Berlin - opravdano zrtvovanje grada ili ne
« Odgovor #42 poslato: Jul 09, 2008, 08:24:24 posle podne »
Rat je uvek zlo. On neizostavno podrazumeva patnje najsirih slojeva drustva. Kao sto rece Razdjevik 60% zrtava u SSSR-u bili su civili. Veliki je bes bio na obe strane. Crvena armija je gazila pred sobom vracajuci za sva zlodela Wermachta, a narocito SS jedinica. Folosofska je diskusija da li cineci sto i Tvoj neprijatelj postajes kao i on.

Sve u svemu, i ja mislim da su Nemaci samo osetili staro dobro "oko za oko, zub za zub". I nije mi ih zao.
... Boricemo se u Francuskoj, na morima i okeanima, boriti sa sve vecim samopouzdanjem i sve jacim snagama u vazduhu, branicemo nase ostrvo, ma kakva da bude cena. Boricemo se na obalama, na mestima za iskrcavanja, na poljima i po ulicama , boriti u brdima; nikada se necemo predati ...

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Odg: Bitka za Berlin - opravdano zrtvovanje grada ili ne
« Odgovor #43 poslato: Jul 09, 2008, 09:40:00 posle podne »
Ja ipak zalim... zato sto su Rusi otisli uz Dunav... umesto preko Dunava.

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Odg: Bitka za Berlin - opravdano zrtvovanje grada ili ne
« Odgovor #44 poslato: Jul 09, 2008, 10:36:55 posle podne »
Ja ipak zalim... zato sto su Rusi otisli uz Dunav... umesto preko Dunava.

Znas i sam da je to dogovoreno mnogo ranije... :streber:
... Boricemo se u Francuskoj, na morima i okeanima, boriti sa sve vecim samopouzdanjem i sve jacim snagama u vazduhu, branicemo nase ostrvo, ma kakva da bude cena. Boricemo se na obalama, na mestima za iskrcavanja, na poljima i po ulicama , boriti u brdima; nikada se necemo predati ...